Larry vs. Harry Bullitt – the Battery (Box)

A big bike with two motors needs a big battery. Lets take advantage of the frontloader design to both hide and secure it.

The Bullitt Build
1. Battery and Battery Box (you are here)
2. Cargo Box
3. Brakes
4. Front Motor & Wheel
5. Rear Motor & Drivetrain
6. Bits & Pieces

A big issue with an ebike – particularly one that is left outside on its own all the time – is battery security. The battery is maybe the most expensive component on an ebike and its a big theft target. So typically you have to carry the thing inside with you, and hey… thats a real pain in the neck. Not only is it a really heavy black brick, but you have to dismount it and re-mount it to the bike, and disconnect and reconnect it to the motor (forget about your display keeping the correct time and date), every single time. I have come up with my own way to make the best of this bad situation for my other cargo bikes, but with the Bullitt, we can make the problem go away.

The Kinda-Secret Compartment

Take a look at the picture above. See the big black box under the cargo area, near the ground? Thats it: the battery box. You’d be surprised by how many people don’t notice it. Even if they do, what are they going to do about it?

I had seen a few other Bullitt builds with battery boxes and they seemed like great ideas: The battery goes out of sight, out of mind under the floor of the bike. It lets you get creative on battery size (as in you can go bigger if you like since there’s lots of room down there). It may even be made secure enough that you can just leave it on the bike – eliminating maybe the biggest inconvenience of using an ebike for daily errands and shopping.

Also, just as with electric auto designs, a ‘skateboard’ config for the battery puts it centered and below the floor – down as low as it can go. That is as good as it can get for performance.

But I was thinking of none of these things when I was putting together my build sheet. I was still thinking I would do another quick-carry sling pack with the battery inside, and toss that pack into the cargo bay for easy removal and replacement. It wouldn’t be secured to anything but I would see about figuring that out later on.

My sling pack with a 20ah battery inside, used on my Surly Big Fat Dummy

But while the parts were still trickling in, I was participating in a discussion on the Bullitt Universal Owners Group on Facebook. Another Bullitt owner showed off his own build and mentioned his battery box – and that he had gotten it from Splendid Cycles – the same shop where I got my Bullitt frame and parts. I gave them a call and in short order one of the last examples they had on hand was on its way to me. I was told up front the box was a blank canvas, and I would need my own elbow grease to add mounting holes and any other refinements, such as waterproofing, cable exits etc.

As-delivered, the battery box looked as you see it below. A simple slot holds it up on the back. Its front at first seems unnecessarily complicated, but is quite clever. Its seamless, unbroken face prevents any direct channel for water ingress from the front, just behind the tire. The cutouts necessary to let the box slide into place doubled as my exit points for the power, charging and temperature sensor cables, so no need to cut any holes. It fits absolutely flush to the near side of the frame so no insulation is needed or wanted. Its shape is angled on one side to clear the steering tube.

The box as-delivered, almost. I used black flexible silicone sealant to all the internal seams, and dabbed over all of the rivets as well.

Box Installation

The first step was to drill the box so it could be fixed in place. As-designed, it would stay put. But I am sure there would be some shifting and rattling… and I can’t abide rattles. Also, the existence of the box complicated the installation of the honeycomb floorboard. The floorboard expects to be able to drop a bolt straight down and use a nut underneath to lock it down. Well, now that bolt hole is completely inside the box on the front left corner. Its outside on the right front, but not by much. I needed to change those two mounts to fixed studs going from the bottom up.

I also wanted to add an entirely separate bolt on the front dedicated to strongly fixing the box in place. I decided to use an oversized hole, and used a hand file to enlarge it to a rectangle. Following that, a combination of an oversized, hardened washer and a flush-fit M8 bolt gives a flat fit that works under the honeycomb board fitting directly down on top of it.

The new ‘studs’ are common, long M6 socket caps with – get this – a Presta valve nut to hold them in place. I needed a low profile nut and there’s nothing lower-profile than the common presta nut, which even fits snugly inside the bolt hole manufactured into the LvH honeycomb board.

Forward box mounting complete. Two studs are ready for the honeycomb board, and the center bolt holds the box tight to the frame.

For the rear of the box, to match up with the honeycomb board’s rear mounting hole, I had to use another M6 rather than go with another big M8. I drilled a thin hole thru the box’s top flap and the honeycomb board’s rear mounting bolt goes thru there. However to be consistent – because I wanted to use security nuts to make getting into the box that much more difficult – I made it go in from the bottom-up like the others (we’ll show those security nuts etc. in more detail when we talk about the cargo box installation).

Now Install The Battery

At this point, the next step in the installation process – which, maddeningly, has to be done in this order whether you like it or not – was to install the battery.

You can see how I accomplished that below. All of the padding is closed-cell, and I left as much of the battery untouched by foam as I could. The battery lays on the bare alloy of the box with no padding (a solid metal wall is plenty of protection). It is surrounded on four sides such that it cannot move, even after months of pothole pounding commutes and store visits. I disassembled the bike after 500 miles and looked inside to be sure of this. No water had gotten in either despite riding in rainstorms.

There is a brake cable braze-on above the pack underneath the center bar. It is perfectly positioned to smash into the cells underneath if the pack bounces up to meet it. I prevented this possibility via some left over Minicel T600 EVA foam (you’ll see what I used it for in the Cargo Box episode) to fix the battery in position (i.e. keep it from bouncing). Two pieces are used, one on each side of the braze-on. Underneath this area the visible green rectangle is a piece of thin metal fence strapping which provides a last but certain line of defense against that braze-on ever contacting the bare pack.

The battery is literally incapable of movement on any axis. It is held solidly – but not enough to smoosh anything. Rapping on the box with your knuckles yields a satisfying thunk as if you are rapping on a solid block of metal.

Notice the short extensions in the pics above? There are two lengths of them in use (strictly speaking there are three as we need two when we split the power to run to both motors). I don’t like to make direct connections to wiring that is a hassle to repair – like wires that run hot directly from the battery. I want to be using a short extension on each side of a connection for two reasons. 1: So the wear and tear occurs on something that is easy and painless to replace if it wears out. 2. If something terrible happens like a short, the melted connector is on an extension and can be easily unplugged, thrown away and replaced. No need to be working on live wires to salvage the battery (assuming a short doesn’t cause other problems with the pack itself).

I have had one occasion where this saved my bacon when an XT60 extension shorted on a water bottle bolt head. There was no damage other than to the destroyed cheapie extension. In this case, there is no issue of frequent connects and disconnects, but the habit of using extensions for the safety angle is hard to break.

Lets Talk About The Battery

An AWD bike needs a lot of power. Even one where I have toned down the power to civilized levels. You must have a pack whose Battery Management System is strong enough to run two motors at once, and if you get into the subject and learn the specifics, you will find out real fast that commercially-manufactured battery packs can’t cut the mustard (this is why commercial AWD bikes have two separate batteries). If you want to build the bike right as opposed to building it cheap and sucky, you have to get yourself a custom pack built that is tailored to the job.

Pack Details

The battery itself was built custom to my specs after some discussion with Matt Bzura at Bicycle Motorworks. This is one of several packs I have purchased from his firm, after hearing nothing but good things about his work from other builders over the span of a few years. I’ve had nothing but good experience working with him as well.

I knew that an AWD bike needs more power, so the battery pack needs to be bigger than usual. And the Splendid Cycles battery box is a big sucker. If I put in a battery that filled that box it would be TOO big. Looking at the box dimensions and knowing what I wanted to do for crash padding gave me one half of the picture. Matt @ BicycleMotorworks filled in the blanks with the dimensional details of the cells and battery management system chosen for the job.

Cells Samsung 40T (21700’s)
Pack Config 14S8P (52v)
BMS Capacity 70a Continuous output
Amp Hours32
Output CableXT90S / 8ga
Charge CableXT60 / 12 ga

The 40T cells in the larger 21700 size, and overall pack design allows it to operate under load without voltage sag, and without heating up, despite the enclosed space and the dense, closed cell padding that holds the pack fast. A temperature sensor is attached to the pack top and runs outside of the box for easy visibility from the saddle.

What About Heat? 
In use in a normal climate - bearing in mind its sealed in a big metal box - the pack does not get noticeably warm over and above ambient air temperature - nothing over 5 degrees Fahrenheit above ambient.  However, 5 degrees over ambient is a lot when its 105 in the shade, where in the sun, the pavement is radiating heat at 130.   In severe heat (as I write this, the end of next week is scheduled to reach 114°F, which is more than 45°C) I need to plan ahead for where the bike is going to be parked, and plan my route to provide the shortest, shadiest path to my destination.  Our local area has already experienced several days where the temperature has exceeded 110°F / 43°C. Even though the battery cells are not thermally coupled to the case, I ringed the box with heat sinks to help keep the pack a bit closer to ambient temperature.  They have reduced pack surface temperature by up to 5 degrees. 

The battery charge cable is routed outside of the box along with the power cables, and comes up as shown in the photo below (the green plug). This plug is semi-rigid thanks to the manner in which I insulated the end connector, as well as how its braced against other secured wiring. It is easy to access, protected from the elements via the plug cap and not going anywhere. In winter months a rubber band and some plastic will ensure nothing can get through and cause any fireworks.

And last but not least… this is a 52v battery that has a capacity of 32 amp hours. I like having batteries big enough that range anxiety doesn’t exist. You simply go ride the bike and do what you need to do. Considering the bike – thanks to its motor configs – eats only 400-500w at cruise… my ass will wear out in the seat before the battery charge does…

So long as I remember to charge it. But even then – and this has happened to me already – the battery is big enough to maybe rescue me from that faux pas.

The battery temp sensor sits here, without any need for actual mounting. The Bullitt’s ride is so stable nothing more is required. The charger plug is covered in a green cap at center.

Thats about all I have on the battery and battery box. We’ll stick to the same area of the bike in the next article in the series, as the two are linked together:

The Cargo Box

The Bullitt, by Larry vs. Harry – Cargo Bike Build

And now for something completely different. The Bullitt from Larry vs. Harry is a bucket list bike that (now that its finally done) I love to ride. This series will cover the details of a frame-up build that includes AWD electrification.

The Bullitt Build (you are here)
1. Battery and Battery Box
2. Cargo Box
3. Brakes
4. Front Motor & Wheel
5. Rear Motor & Drivetrain
6. Bits & Pieces

Originally, this was going to be a single article that covered everything. However, as time progressed and I got more and more of the details written down, I found I was at almost 6800 words, and could easily hit 8-10,000 before completion. Thats too damn big, so it had to be broken up. This opening post will cover some of the introductory bits. Then we’ll split off into followups that hit the high points of the various things worth bringing up.

There’s a lot to get to so lets jump in.

Background

Having built up the Mongoose Envoy as my first cargo bike, then supersizing to the Surly Big Fat Dummy, you would think the Larry vs. Harry Bullitt was my third choice for a cargo bike. It was the opposite: The Bullitt was my first choice. But first,

What the hell is a Bullitt?

A Bullitt is a bakfiets. How does me saying that help you? It doesn’t, until I add that bakfiets is a Dutch term that means “box bike”. You’ll be helped along a bit more by the fact that a bakfiets is often referred to in English as a ‘frontloader’. So, the box is in front of the rider. Here is a Google image search that will let you see a slew of them, of all different types.

Looking at all those different pictures, they all look sort of like 2- or 3-wheeled dump trucks. Not exactly a fun ride. But thats to be expected of freight haulers, right?

So, What the hell is a Bullitt?

A Bullitt is a frontloader-style cargo bike made by Larry vs. Harry in Copenhagen, Denmark. It does its cargo carrying job, but its also specifically designed to be nimble, on a frame that is relatively rigid. Its also meant to be those things in a lightweight package, where that frame is lightweight alloy (whose inherent rigidity is mitigated by the sheer length of the frame. A Bullitt is also a very comfortable bike to ride).

In short, the Bullitt is a cargo bike for people who still want to have fun riding their bike. You aren’t schlepping around in the bicycle equivalent of a minivan.

This gets the idea across in 1 minute.

When I originally decided to build up a Bullitt, I set up my build sheet and began listing out components. But before I finished, the cost crossed my pain threshold and I chickened out. This was going to be my first cargo bike. I had no experience with the platform, and wasn’t even sure I would like the idea, never mind throwing in the funkiness of a frontloader. I wasn’t ready to make such a big financial commitment.

So I went the budget route with the Mongoose Envoy. I used that frame and fork as a donor platform to develop a really nice lower-cost cargo solution. After some use I decided 1)this whole cargo bike thing was really cool and 2)the Envoy wasn’t big enough for the XXL jobs I wanted to give it.

When I was doing my research prior to buying the Envoy, I had almost bought the much larger Surly Big Fat Dummy, but bailed on that one too due to the same kinds of newbie uncertainties that led me to bail on the Bullitt project.

So, wanting to upsize, I went there next. That bike has been a thing of beauty. I loved it and still do for a variety of reasons beyond its utility as a cargo bike (and a bikepacking bike. And a take-the-trails-route-instead commuter. And an unstoppable freight train that terrifies all who cross its path). The Big Fat Dummy truly is a BFD.

But…

Using the BFD for all things, every day, I could see room for improvement. Stuff that bugged me and worse – slowed me down.

At the shops, you have to bring the battery in with you or risk getting it stolen. I had a solution for this but it still takes effort to deal with and is a pain. Additionally it limits the size of the battery as the bigger it is, the more trouble it is to carry around.

The BFD has two panniers that hold more than 275L (not 27.5… Two Hundred and Seventy Five). Who can ask for more? Except bags that big aren’t kept opened up and ready for use. They’re folded up and strapped to the frame. Expanding them requires some fussing and fiddling with the straps. Not the end of the world but it has to be done. And then you need to cinch those four to six straps down to secure the load. And balance your load between the bags or bad things can happen. When you are doing this every day at multiple stops, you start wanting things to be easier… but how?

Enter The Dragon

A Bullitt from Larry vs. Harry. Thats how. A bike purpose-built for a narrow type of use-case: urban utility. The Bullitt is the most nimble and rigidly-framed of the genre: the sports car of the frontloader world. The battery on this bike will be locked in a quasi-concealed, sealed box under the cargo floor of the bike; out of sight from prying eyes and prybars. No more lugging it into the store with me. Most importantly, the bike has a floor in the first place. Cargo is held in a great big open box. I can just walk up, dump my shit in and and take off. No more pre-flight prep.

Also I kind of liked that it looked weird… and I had no idea whether I could ride such a contraption. I don’t get that kind of uncertainty with bikes much these days and I looked forward to the challenge.

Oh, and since LvH decided to call the green paint on the bike Lizzard King, well that makes for an obvious name for the bike.

Bullitts are – wonderfully – built up from frames and customized by a great many of their owners. So even though I am doing a lot of writing-up here, there’s not much point in doing full how-to’s, since thats how most everyone does it already, anyway. So my focus will for the most part be more of a high-level one rather than getting down and into the finer details of Tab A inserting into Slot B etc.

What a mess! A month or so after initial build completion my custom battery arrived… time to take it back apart!

So Lets Build It Already!

So much going on… Where do we start?

The Frame Kit

Your local Larry vs. Harry dealer will happily sell you a complete bike, or even one whose frame has been purpose-built to integrate an electric motor. You can choose an internally geared hub, and the frame has a split in it to allow a belt drive. Lots of options for a complete bike, or buy their frame kit and build your own.

I chose the frame kit route. The kit comes with the frame, fork, steering arm, headsets (plural) installed and a number of other components that are unique to a Bullitt’s construction, so you don’t have to go searching all over creation for weird parts. I also purchased the “honeycomb floor board” (the cargo deck) and the “side panels” (hard sides to the cargo area that turn it into a big bucket). It all arrived in one giant box, too big for UPS so it was a LTL freight carrier in a full sized semi-hauler that brought it in. The truck was so big it had to meet me on the street.

I purchased the frame kit from Splendid Cycles up in Portland, Oregon. I handled the transaction entirely over the phone and the folks at Splendid were both helpful and generous with their time, answering my technical and build questions and making sure I was taken care of. Delivery was prompt and I was frankly amazed at how well the frame was packaged once I got the box opened up. Oddly enough I met the tech who packed my frame online, in the Bullitt Facebook group, who was happy to see I got the frame and confirmed what was visually obvious: he had spent time making sure it was packed well so it would get to me in the same shape it left their shop.

All Wheel Drive

Even though the bike only took me about a month to build so it was at least roadworthy, there was a lot going on with this bike. Most of the reason it was such a pain revolved around this one feature. In the end, it was worth it, but the added complexity of an AWD ebike is not for the faint of heart.

Two-motor AWD means wires everywhere. Hiding them is something of an art form.

I have built several all wheel drive ebikes, but not recently. I decided the Bullitt was going to be the proof-of-concept behind a different, more civilized/everyman form of ebike AWD that I had been mulling over for years but never did anything about. That subject, the merits of an AWD ebike and the specifics surrounding it are all dealt with in a separate case study in my dual-motor AWD ebike series. I’ll let that post and its companions stand on their own and just say that the sort of cooperative, drama-free AWD that was put into the Bullitt is, in my estimation, a tremendous success with regard to making it a viable all-day, everyday auto replacement.


Which leads us straight into the next episode:

The Battery (and Battery Box)

Big Fat Dummy: Make It An Ebike

What is necessary to transform a Surly Big Fat Dummy into an electric bicycle? I thought my BFD series was finished until I realized I left this part out.

The Surly BFD Project Menu
Prologue
Episode 1: 138L (each) Panniers… Seriously?!
Episode 2: Big Fat Dumb Wideloaders
Episode 3: Kickstand Kaos
Episode 4: Add a Flight Deck. And a Hangar.
Episode 5: Leftovers
Episode 6: Electrification (You Are Here)

Oops?

On the surface, it seems I left a hole in my description of my Surly Big Fat Dummy build. I omitted this episode and thought I was done. In my defense, there are zillions of BBSHD installation tutorials out there, and I have described a BBSHD install myself – on a cargo bike no less – right here in this blog.

However, I haven’t done a writeup geared to THIS bike. Since this blog is dedicated to answering questions that I see asked a lot (and I have seen this one more than a few times), I’ll do something a little more focused on the BFD.

Bear in mind the bike has been in near-daily use for months already. I had to dig thru my archives for pics rather than taking them as I went along. So illustrationwise, there’s not much to see. On the flip side of that, there doesn’t need to be as the Big Fat Dummy is an easy (easy!) build.

Since I have covered this ground elsewhere, I’ll be leaving generic details out, and providing links to related content more so than I will be doing in depth step-by-step instructions.

Get On With It Already!

Yeah, yeah sure … here we go.

Step 1: Buy What You Need

This can be very simple or very involved. Especially if you are a first-timer and don’t know what you need and maybe not even what you want. In my opinion the best motor for the job is a Bafang BBSHD. I typically buy my motors from Luna Cycle, and here is their page for their kit. They may or may not be selling a battery along with that kit. I am using a different source for the pack as you will see further below.

If you buy the kit, you don’t have to worry about buying individual bits, with the exception of needing a speed sensor cable extension, and a proper chainring.

But, lets go over the individual bits. Myself personally, I just buy the bare motor from Luna, and add the parts I need to complete the installation. This lets me use exactly what I want, which is not quite possible if buying the packaged kit. Here are all my parts:

  • Bare Motor:
    Purchased from Luna Cycle here. The Surly Big Fat Dummy requires the 100mm sized motor (It will be a perfect fit). if its available you can buy the optional spacer and mounting kit on that page. At the moment, Luna is not selling the 100mm mounting kit – the only difference is some M6 bolts and spacers… you can source that yourself to the correct size if needed. Or just buy the needed parts separately. Go ahead and accept the 46T chainring (aka ‘The Disk of Death’) as its a free throwaway item you would (should) never use.
    Secondary Source: California Ebike is a reliable alternative and one of my go-to sellers for parts, but their motors cost an additional $100 or so. Here is their BBSHD motor page. Note that Cali Ebike offers users who may need it service after sale. Luna is a better choice for the confident do-it-yourselfer who can diagnose and fix most issues themselves, and save a hundred bucks by taking on that risk.
  • Motor Mounting Parts:
    • Triangle Mounting Plate:
      This is what puts the bite on your bottom bracket to firmly affix the motor. You can buy these plates at Luna Cycle, BafangUSA Direct or Amazon.
    • M6 bolts, washers, spacers:
      Needed to affix the Triangle Mounting Plate, these are commonly available. If you work on bikes you probably already have them in the garage. If you buy a mounting kit they may have them but in all cases I recommend you do not use them and instead go out and buy stainless hardware.
    • Lockrings:
      I use two inner rings stacked atop one another. If you like, you can buy the more conventional inner and the aesthetically-pleasing outer. More on the reasoning behind the choices below. Buy the rings at Luna Cycle, Bafang USA Direct or Amazon.
  • Speed Sensor & Cable Extension:
    You will need the sensor (which integrates a length of cable to plug into the motor), the sensor magnet and an extension thanks to the Surly Big Fat Dummy’s long tail. I have seen builders route the sensor to the front fork but by necessity this puts the sensor inside of the tire rim’s width, which makes for issues taking that tire off. Put it on the back where it belongs and forget about it. I described the sensor in a fair bit of detail here. Don’t mess with multiple magnets unless you feel a need to experiment, but I do provide a link to what I think is a lighter weight, superior magnet that you may want to substitute for the Bafang wheel weight that comes with their sensor. The speed sensors themselves are available in a wide variety of places, cheapest at Luna but also at California Ebike and many other sources. You can get the speed sensor extension anywhere you can find the speed sensor. California Ebike or Bafang USA Direct or many other sources, including Amazon with Prime Delivery. Notice all of the options I linked are different lengths. Measure the gap you have when you are routing your cabling and decide which one you want, accordingly.
  • A Proper Chainring:
    I am going to skip most of the detail here and refer you to this blog post on BBSHD chainrings. It was written with the Mongoose Envoy build in mind but the Surly Big Fat Dummy has essentially an identical set of problems and solutions. I will say this: For a combination of mostly street with some mild trail use I settled on the 46T Lekkie Bling Ring, which biases chain line towards the bottom half of the 11 speed cluster. This is the ring that has the most miles on my bike and its the best all-rounder. At the moment I am set up mostly for trails, though, and as such I am running the Luna Eclipse 42T which biases chainline heavily toward the inner half of the rear cluster, giving me the best possible access to the inner cogs.
UPDATE: But I did that anyway.  I put on a very small Lekkie 32T ring on the front in anticipation of some very serious trail rides in the Lower Sierras.  You can go smaller than a 32T but this ring - which is a little smaller than the secondary housing of the motor - is regarded as a very good sweet spot.  A 28T is so small it can contact the motor housing, which is bad.  The 32T in conjunction with the biggest rear gears on my rear cluster (46T) can climb anything possible to climb at all on two wheels, while leaving the motor in a good place, power-wise.

Note with a BBSHD, the stock My Other Brother Darryl rims and the stock Edna tires, you may not be fully able to use all cogs simply because chainline will not be acceptable for a 1x drivetrain pumping out 1000 to 1750w. You can do it, but the chainring teeth and maybe the chain will not last very long if you run at either extreme – say… the smallest cog and the Luna chainring. It all depends on your final component choices, so just be aware of the issue and check for it to make sure you don’t have any issues that you need to compensate for when riding.

Two of the pics below show a 130 BCD adapter which really biases chainline to the lower cogs, and is best for the street. Both of these use 48T, 130 BCD chainrings. Even though most of my mileage on this bike is with the 46T Lekkie ring, it doesn’t appear as if I ever took a picture of the bike with the thing installed.

  • Crankarms:
    In two of the pictures above you can see I used Lekkie Buzz Bars, and with their forged construction and left offset to correct the misalignment under your saddle that will happen with standard crankarms. Luna Cycle sells a less-expensive clone worth looking at if you can’t handle the price of the Lekkies. As a last resort you can also use the standard Bafang crankarms that are cheap and cheaply made, but good enough for many riders. Make sure you buy BBSHD-specific arms or they will not have the left offset.
  • Display:
    I have used many displays and hands down, at the present time the Bafang/Luna 860C is the best out there. It is fully visible in blinding sunlight and can be set to display both real time amp output as well as real time wattage. The Luna version reads battery voltage level accurately up to 60v, meaning it works with 52v batteries. Bafang versions of the 860C may not. There are many other options for a display including a low-visibility-but-clean/low profile EggRider v2. For my money the 860C is worth waiting for if its temporarily out of stock, and its now my go-to for bikes I build.
  • Throttle:
    I like the basic el cheapo Bafang universal thumb throttle. Its an easy fit and unobtrusive. If you follow my lead on BBSHD settings for it, its annoyingly short throw will still be well controllable and allow for fine adjustments while riding. Buy it at Luna, California Ebike or Bafang USA Direct.
  • Main Bus Cable:
    You have options here. the main bus cable is available in short and long lengths, and there are also extensions available. However nothing fancy is required on the Surly Big Fat Dummy. You can buy this standard one from Luna or many, many other sources. If you opt to use Magura MT5e brakes, California Ebike has a specially modified harness to plug in the red Higo/Julet cutoff connectors the MT5e uses. I am using this bus cable and MT5e’s, myself. NOTE: If you opt to keep the SRAM hydraulic brakes you will not have brake-actuated motor cutoffs. This is no big deal. They’re nice but the stock brakes can overpower the motor in a pinch. If you like, you can invest in some hydraulic cutoff conversions that involve gluing on a magnet to your levers and strapping on some wires. the alternative is a brake upgrade (not a bad thing, but not cheap, either).
  • Installation tool(s):
    Using one of the many Bafang-inspired toy wrenches to install a BBSHD is a cruel joke on the inexperienced. You have to use a proper torque wrench and special socket to do the job right, where the motor doesn’t move. I’ll leave the torque wrench choice to you (I use a Wera B2). The socket you need for the inner ring is often out of stock. Buy it here at Luna Cycle or hunt around… its available elsewhere if you look. The tool for the outer ring can either be hand-tightened – if you must – with a stainless steel version of the cheesy Bafang wrench. I bought this one on Amazon so I know it fits. But it is absolutely a sucky solution. Better is to use a 16-notch bottom bracket tool that you can fit onto a torque wrench and do a proper job of applying the manufacturer’s torque spec, written right on that outer ring. Note if you use two inner rings stacked on top of one another like I do you do not need the special outer ring tool.
  • The Battery:
    There are a bunch of different ways you can play this. Among others you can plant one on the bike on the framework just behind the seatpost. At present mine is in the triangle in a bag. My size Medium frame can just barely hold this 21ah, 52v battery from Bicycle Motorworks. ‘Barely’ means after I have added some padding. I also keep the battery in a quick-detach bag inside the triangle. I described the quick-release setup with pics in detail here.

    I’d like to have more room for padding, so I am exploring a shift to that framework as an alternative. We’ll see as its a big change.

Step 2: Remove Stuff

OK so you have all of your parts for the motor… Time to take things off so you are ready to do the installation. Its a simple list: Remove the crankarms, bottom bracket and chainrings.

You’ll also want to pull off one of your handlebar grips in preparation for installing your throttle. Which one depends on how you want to set up the bars. You will also likely want to loosen up and shift around your brake levers and the remaining rear shifter so your throttle is butted up directly against your hand-grip, rather than the brake being there. this is a bridge you should cross when you come to it, disassembly-wise.

Initially I used a Luna Wolf Pack, as shown in this picture. Thats another option for your build.

Thats it. You’re ready to install your motor.

Step 3: Install The Motor

Here again I’m not going to get too deep into the specifics of motor installation. I’ve already covered it myself elsewhere for a similar bike, and God knows there are plenty of video and written tutorials out there on the interwebs. However I will note that the 100mm motor is a perfect fit on the Surly Big Fat Dummy, which requires no spacers of any kind. Just put it in like it belongs there and clamp it down tight.

About that clamping part, I will go into that a bit:

Lockrings

I mentioned above that I like to use two inner (gray) lockrings: I stack them atop one another in jam-nut fashion where each is tightened to 100 ft lbs. Thats quite a lot more than the Bafang specification for using just one inner lockring. I am going off of installation advice provided by Luna Cycle – not in their official installation video linked above. At one time there was a supplemental vid made in their shop that discussed their learning experiences assembling their shop bikes. It went hand in hand with the use of a big 1/2″ torque wrench to apply the necessary force, and that wrench in turn used a specially made Luna tool for the lockrings (that sadly is no longer available, although you can see them on the site still). The use of 100 ft lbs and some additional info on it is in the link to the tool above.

I have stuck to that 100 ft lb specification and it has never let me down. I have also added to it by using a second inner lock ring rather than the ‘beauty’ trim ring that is more typically used. The number of threads needed for another inner ring is about the same. You gain the benefit of a serious jam nut holding down the first ring. Also, something we are not doing here but you can see elsewhere: If you are building an AWD bike, the use of two rings lets you mount the front wheel’s PAS ring in between the two.

I do not use the outer trim / beauty ring at all.

Lastly on the subject of lockrings, here’s a technique to tell at a glance whether the rings are loosening or your motor is shifting (or about to): Make a registration line along the frame and the lockrings. If the line ever breaks apart, something is loosening. You can tell with a simple glance down as you are mounting the bike.

See the registration mark (aka the black Sharpie line)? Also note there are no spacers needed on the locking plate under the M6 bolt on the left. Perfect fit for a 100mm motor.

Next, I’ll make note of how I did the speed sensor installation, both with the factory SRAM brakes and my later MT5e upgrade.

Using the SRAM Brakes / No Helpers

Attaching a speed sensor on a Surly Big Fat Dummy is not as straightforward as it is on a typical bicycle. In addition to the added distance – addressed with an extension cable – there’s no place to put the thing! The frame is different enough that nothing appears to work – on first glance.

Keep looking! The SRAM brakes that come stock with the bike have a weird sort of tail hanging off the caliper, and this is a handy, if unusual, place to mount the speed sensor.

I first wrapped this tail with a length of 3M mastik tape to enlarge its diameter and give the sensor more to grab onto. Then I simply zip tied it on as if it were a chainstay, and aligned the magnet as usual. These pictures show a dusty bike as they were taken just before I uninstalled the sensor and upgraded the brakes to the Magura MT5e’s.

Using Other Brakes – And a Crutch

For the Maguras, there was no such luck as the calipers have no tails or anything else I could glom onto. So I had to add something: I used a simple small handlebar extension, and built up the frame to a proper larger diameter to mount it by wrapping the frame with gorilla tape, which I then faced with silicone tape to provide a grippy surface for the bar mount. Next, I used more zip ties (!) to clamp the new ‘frame tube’ to the upper part of the Big Fat Dummy’s … superstructure. Once this was done, I had a tube close enough to the spokes to re-mount the speed sensor as shown.

What About a Gear Sensor?

Good question. Read this.

Whats With The Heat sinks on the Motor?

I’m glad you asked. Here’s your answer :-).

What Else?

Well, a bunch I suppose if you were looking for a bolt-by-bolt conversion tutorial specific to this one bike. But really, between the other pages already on this site and the links I have given off-world up above, you’ve got everything here that you need to buy – and build – your own.

So have at it!

Dual Motor AWD Electric Bikes – Case Study: Larry vs. Harry Bullitt Cargo

After multiple strong AWD builds, I used this one to prove a unique concept: You don’t need big power to get big AWD benefits.

AWD Ebikes Menu
AWD. OMG. WTF!
Case Study – Flatland Fat Bike Commuter. Hub+Hub
Case Study – Alpine Road & Trail. Hub+Mid Drive
Case Study – Low-Power Cargo Beast. Hub+Mid Drive (you are here)

The Lizzard King

  • 500w, 25a geared Bafang G020 front hub motor
  • 30a BBSHD mid drive (rear motor)
  • 52v, 32ah single battery, skateboard config (box under cargo floor)
  • KT and Bafang displays
  • 160 Nm rear, 45Nm front


Want to see all the details of how how this bike was built?

Go here to see that separate series of articles.

My previous AWD builds all used effectively the same front wheel setup: A 35a controller mated to a Bafang geared fat motor packing an 80 Nm punch. It was so powerful, on my early commuter bikes I needed to turn down acceleration via a slow-start setting. When I graduated to a combination mid drive+hub, I found best results on rough trails came from the same slow start, but also using the front power sparingly: little if any throttle and gentle PAS.

There things stayed for a few years – roughly from the middle of 2017 to early 2021. During this period I concentrated on riding and refining the use and configuration of these AWD bikes. I built other bikes during this time- all more traditional single-motor mid drives. As part of that work I came up with tuning settings that worked very well with pedaling and a cycling mindset. These changes worked great with the 2Fat AWD bike as well.

With regard to tuning, I concentrated on backing off the BBSHD’s power when delivered in ‘pedelec’ mode: limited use of throttle and pedal assist only. The point of this was to have a bike that did not run away from me, still delivered measurable, useful levels of assist, lacked the common complaints against cadence-type assist and did not suffer from any of the weaknesses of torque-sensing.

When 2021 arrived and I wanted to build a bucket-list bike – the Larry vs. Harry Bullitt cargo bike – I decided to go all out and make it AWD. Further, I wanted to prove a concept I had been mulling over for the last few years. For lack of a better term, lets call it Drama-Free AWD: what a normal person who just wanted a reliable automobile replacement would want to ride.

Ingredients

Its a pretty short list:

  • Low power
    High power in a front wheel can be fun, but its not necessary to gain the traction benefits that come with AWD. Use a smaller, lighter, relatively low-powered motor (45 Nm vs. the prior 80 Nm) as part of its design. Also use a smaller controller that peaks at 25 amps rather than the previous 35. Continue to use the slow-start setting to ensure … Drama Free AWD. 25 amps on a smaller diameter wheel will still be a strong assist, but those amps will be rolled on slowly so no surprises.
  • Fast Wind Front Motor
    The Bullitt has a 20″ front wheel. A ‘fast wind’ motor favors torque off the starting line at the expense of higher top speed. This is normal for a small wheel build and further solidifies the emphasis on slow, strong startup power that melts away on its own as speed increases.
  • Toned-Down Rear Motor
    My revised motor settings keep the BBSHD from engaging until speed goes past 5 mph if I rely on pedal assist. I learned how important that is to drivetrain longevity when I built 2Fat. We’ll re-use those identical settings.

What I Expected

On a bike destined to carry heavy loads, the front motor is intended to get the bike off to a painless start. It does this job very nicely. Despite the relatively low power, it still gets the bike rolling from a stop, and effectively takes out the BBSHD’s shock to the drivetrain when that second motor kicks in at 6 mph.

That reduced sting will translate into reduced wear and tear, and reduced parts replacement over time. Its too early to pull hubs apart and look inside to verify this assumption, but since I have seen and verified the effect before on similar hardware, there’s no reason to assume different results.

It was a short list of things to expect and… it all panned out. But there were also some pleasant surprises. This turned out better than I thought it would.

What Surprised Me

I noted above the motor is ‘fast wind’; built for low-speed torque, not high speed rpms, and how this plays into the smaller front wheel size. Intellectually, thats easy to understand. Less obvious was the fact that, in practice, there will be a lot less motor usage than there was before.

With The Great Pumpkin, I usually run both motors at equal levels (usually full blast) all the time. The bike and flat, straight streets just lend themselves to a high speed cruise. Two identical motors and identical controllers gulping juice from one battery mean a big power drain. No surprise.

With 2Fat, while I reduce power to the front motor, I was often giving the bike hard use on trails. More often than not the bike is fighting its way up a hill, thru a bunch of sand etc.

So even though The Lizzard King is not dramatically different than 2Fat in terms of its configuration, the world it lives in is quite different: level and smooth city streets. Easy acceleration and long periods of the motors spinning fast while running at an efficient cruising speed.

More different still: Off the line, the front motor kicks in slowly and then power melts away as wheel revolutions increase. It pulls strong from zero to about 16 mph. But from 17+, it starts scaling back as the motor approaches its rpm limit. By the time 20 mph rolls around, on typical level 2 assist you are down to about 200 watts of output. By the time you hit 23-24 mph on flat ground, wattage to the front wheel has minimized to a steady… 37 watts. Just enough of a dribble to ease the wheel’s free spin.

If you hit an incline, you’ll slow down a tad and see wattage output creep up again. But rolling down the street on the flats, the front motor takes itself out of the picture. Its time for…

… The rear motor to kick in. As noted, pedal assist does not engage the rear motor until it crosses past 5 mph. So when the front motor is eating the most juice, the rear motor hasn’t even started. As the mid kicks in and spools up, the hub begins making its graceful exit.

The two motors never really run hard together at the same time, unless climbing a hill. Then you can see watts climb on the front rather than fading away. Cruising at an energetic cadence around 24+ mph , you are on the single rear motor, being given a small boost from the front motor (remember those 37 watts?).

With the two motors staying out of each others’ way, this translates to an overall reduction in expected battery drain, consisting of both reduced peak and continuous draws. It gets better though.

Much Better!

The rear BBSHD is also using a lot less power than its siblings in The Pacific Fleet.

At 20 mph, on PAS 2 in the front and maybe PAS 4 or 5 in the back, looking at both displays, I can see 250-300w being output from the rear motor, and another 150-200w being output from the front. 500w or kess are being drawn between the two motors, on a great big cargo bike. All the way up and down the speed curve, watt and amp output for the BBSHD is much less than it is on any of my other bikes.

Not So Fast!

All of this wonderfulness is only true when running under pedal assist. If I mash the rear throttle the BBSHD will, as usual, peg the output gauge until I release. And that means it will burn thru my battery range lickety-split. Not a surprise. There is no free lunch in this world, but if we stay off the throttle we still get a hefty discount.

And I still configured my big single battery (custom-built for this bike) to the usual theoretical limits: A 25a peak front controller and a 30a peak rear controller mean I must have a battery management system with a bare minimum of a 55a continuous rating, and preferably 60 (mine is 70). I would rather not take any chances, but clearly I have a bigger safety margin than I figured on originally.

And despite the capability of the bike, reality is it rides more comfortably around 20 mph. So power consumption is lower still simply because of the type of bike it is. But the big takeaway is its lower power use is lower across the board. It was an unexpected gain in efficiency, but looking back on it, it should not have been. The benefit was hidden by my hard use of the other bikes.

Commercial Manufacturing

Should a commercial bike be made with this Drama Free AWD kind of approach in mind, a thoughtfully designed system could manage power in such a way as to map out the curves on the individual motors. Develop something that never bumps into the limits of a much more conventional BMS. That makes for a battery system less expensive and easier to source in volume. And a street machine is going to have lower power needs than is generally understood to be the case with an AWD bike.

Lower power means safety for the casual rider, lower cost and smaller battery sizes.

Lower power on a street bike could look like – in the USA at least – dual motors fitted to bikes that still remain legal within both federal manufacturing standards and individual state vehicle codes. A 249w front motor and a 500w rear for example. Or even a 250/350.

Whats the Takeaway?

The fact that I can operate a great big bike like The Lizzard King at power levels well below allowed USA ebike power limits is testimony to the fact that viable, useful AWD can operate well within the legal framework of ebikes in this country.

Just because you have two motors does not mean they both have to be running simultaneously at full blast. Turns out… not doing that can be kind of a big deal.

Add a Flight Deck. And a Hangar.

The Surly Big Fat Dummy has a great big deck in the back. Using a 40″ kicktail longboard and some hardware, Lets make it bigger. And a double decker to boot.

The Surly BFD Project Menu
Prologue
Episode 1: 138L (each) Panniers… Seriously?!
Episode 2: Big Fat Dumb Wideloaders
Episode 3: Kickstand Kaos
Episode 4: Add a Flight Deck. And a Hangar (You Are Here)
Episode 5: Leftovers
Episode 6: Electrification

In the Beginning…

Back when I put together the Mongoose Envoy Project, I used a skateboard deck to cover over the long, but only marginally-useful-on-its-own rear framework to create what ended up being an aircraft carrier landing deck.

I started out with a 33″x10″ double kicktail which I mounted on top of eight 25mm tall by 13mm dia. spacer posts. The idea behind the spacers was to give me some working room to attach a net to the top of the deck, and have room to easily mount its hooks to those posts. It worked well, but I left money on the table with only a 33″ deck. I could go longer. So I did. I found a 40″ longboard with a single kick and mounted it on 10 posts, this time.

It was great, but of course, I thought I could go one better. So I scored a 44″ double-kick longboard, and – since the 25mm posts were a bit fiddly trying to get my fingers in that small space – swapped out for taller 40mm replacements. I also made some other improvements, and that deck remains on that bike as you see it here to this day.

Fast Forward To The Present…

Now I have a Surly Big Fat Dummy, and I want to do the deck idea one better (AGAIN!). I still have the 40″ deck left over from the Mongoose build. Since the BFD is already like 8 feet long I don’t need something that makes it longer, so this ‘shorter’ deck will do just fine. I drilled some new holes, repainted it and took the spacers a step further.

The Next Level (literally)

Unlike the Mongoose, which had nothing but a framework, the Surly Big Fat Dummy already has a pretty good deck as it is. On the Mongoose Envoy I was trying to cover over the bare framework and make something useful. This time I am trying to make something already useful more so.

To preserve the utility of the existing deck, I went with much larger spacers. That created a ‘hangar’ under the deck of this aircraft carrier of a bike. This new hangar’s purpose is to house things that need to be carried along, but generally kept out of sight. Stuff where I can benefit from it being reasonably handy, but kept out of the way.

Great Idea. But first I had to assemble the parts and make the thing.

To give plenty of room between decks, I went to McMaster-Carr and acquired ten 3″ long alloy spacers, 5/8″ outside diameter, sized for 1/4″ bolts. Then I went to Pegasus Auto Racing and, after measuring the exact stack height I would need, grabbed ten AN4 1/4″ hardened airframe bolts of the proper length, along with ten AN970 hardened large-area washers for 1/4″ bolts (for the top deck side) and a bag of AN960 1/4″ x 0.32″ flat washers, where I would need 30 for the deck underside, plus the top and bottom sides of the alloy dummy deck. I wrapped up the party with ten AN365 nylock hex nuts.

Airframe bolts have a specific thread length designed to fit a single bolt and a single double-thick washer. This project uses 4 washers of two different varying thicknesses. Measure carefully.

Wow thats a lot of hardware

Like my previous decks, I wanted to use enough spacers and bolt anchor points to make the deck an integral, structural part of the frame. No wiggling possible. Part of what it takes to do that is to use the widest spacers I can find (the 5/8″ OD are it, and dictated why I couldn’t stay metric). To further solidify the connection laterally, I needed washers everywhere clamping everything.

You can still see the holes from when the deck was bolted to the Mongoose, as well as the holes for the trucks that aren’t there anymore.

And excepting the spacers themselves, its all Grade 8 hardened steel. Its. Not. Moving.

Notice also I used hex bolts and did not bother to work with countersunk heads, matching washers etc. as with the previous decks. This thing is spray painted in truck bedliner to help keep things from sliding around, and the hex bolt edges do the same job.

Airframe bolts exist in a wide variety of very finely diced sizes. I am not giving the size I used because the ones you may need will vary according to the thickness of your top deck.

Here’s what the finished assembly looks like up close:

Now that the aircraft carrier has a landing deck, we find out what we stuff down underneath in the hanger.

Up front, fitting just barely between the front posts, is a 3-amp weatherproof adjustable charger that is a permanent companion to this ebike. In the middle is the toolkit for this bike, containing a pump and all sorts of other goodies. It fits just between the two sets of spacers so it can be dragged out the side. And in the back we see a big thick plastic ziploc freezer bag wedged in between the rear 4 stanchions. Thats the in-case-of-disaster emergency inner tube.

Since then I have added another little jewel:

Thats right. A folding chair. Held rattle free thanks to the net. Stuck in line at curbside pickup? Have a seat and relax.

Take the crap off the top of the deck and you have yourself a work table. Or a coffee table. Or a picnic table. Its 40″ long so use your imagination.

See that net? Its 30″ long before it gets stretched out, and since I ordinarily have the Great Big Bags on the bike, I generally do not need to use the top deck for storage of items up so high. But when I do, that nice long cargo net does a great job.

Here is one of the rare times the bags are full and I need to stack something up on the deck other than a rolled up jacket

Now What?

Got a Big Fat Dummy? And a drill? And a skateboard? Make yourself one of these. Next time you have to sign a peace treaty, host a banquet or make off with an emergency supply of toilet paper… you got this!